Despite all the scepticism towards legal procedures inside the EU, the enlarged Europe succeeded to adopt recently its constitution. Our Central and Eastern European brethren (Poland, Latvia, Estonia, Check Republic, Slovakia, etc) are going to fulfil their legal obligations within the framework of the EU and adhere to its basic document in the very closest future. Our direct neighbour and strategic "partner" throughout history, Lithuania, was the fist country which ratified the EU constitution. Ukraine and Moldova applied for entry into the united Europe. Belarus keeps on reintegrating exclusively in the Eastern direction. But pro-European moods are by far the best evidence of the re-Sovietization in the nowadays Belarus. What policy should we expect from Brussels towards the direct neighbour-countries of the EU? What is the Belarusian perspective within the tendency of the constant East-wound enlargement of the European Union? These were the basic questions our German correspondent, Kirył Kaścian, was interested in. To find the answers, he interviewed a well-known professor in the field of the European enlargement issues, Dr. Friedrich Lehmann, born in 1944, Deputy Rector for International Relations at the University of Applied Sciences Bremen (Hochschule Bremen), Course Director of the Programme "Master in European Studies".

KK: The year 2004 has become one of the most important in the European history. 10 countries have found themselves in the enlarged European Union. The EU has doubled the number of its members. Where do You see the borders of the EU, i.e. where does Europe end, if it does?

Prof. Dr. Lehmann: For next 10 years this question will be opened. Especially this concerns the possible accession of Turkey. German newspapers wrote about split up in German political arena of whether Turkey should be a member of the EU or not. The European Union is not Europe and we tend the mistake to turn the EU to Europe.

My personal idea is that all states culturally and geographically belong to Europe are invited to be a member of the European Union if they want and fulfil the criteria.

Between the old members there has not been a big difference. New member-states have a lot of problems. Socially and politically it is much more difficult to adapt these states, as when there had been 6 or 12 members. But the Union should be patient with this problem. Old member-states should wait with the progress of new accession states, until these countries catch up.

Nobody talks about it but we do have Europe of different speeds. But on the long term we have to make Europe on the one speed, in order not to divide European States.

Turkey does not geographically belong to Europe. But the points of security, geopolitics and good relations with the Islamic world are the reasons that support the idea of membership of Turkey in the EU.

As for Belarus and Ukraine, if they want to join the EU, on the long term it makes sense from economic, but also cultural and political points of view.

But there is a danger for the Union if we have too many compromises, because it will fall to part. Size is not always a value as well as quantity is not quality.

KK: The European Union consists of 25 member-states. Don't you think that this number is too big for effective work of the EU bodies?

Prof. Dr. Lehmann: It is difficult to run the European Union with 25 member states. Therefore there is a need of new Constitution. It will provide with more clearly defined division of powers and decision-making process within the Union.

It will be tough to find a compromise with 25 states as they too many different interests. There is an old saying: "The European Union is like a bicycle. You have to work hard to move it forward, otherwise you cannot stay up. We need some progress in the European Union. Too many interests are blocking progress and we face a real challenge, but with a new constitution it can work.

KK: The EU is being involved into the negotiation with several candidate countries. How do you see the chances of Belarus and Ukraine for the EU accession?

Prof. Dr. Lehmann: The European Union should have intent to have good relations with Russia. And the real progress in this area has been achieved. As long as we politically turn for Russia, than I see no point to spoil the relations with this country.

There is also a lack of real democracy in Belarus. Democracy development is not an immediate progress. You may lose ground but you should never give up. But if situation changes I would personally regard Belarus and Ukraine to belong to the European Union much more than Turkey for instance.

Bulgaria and Romania had more or less economically changes, but they need a lot of help to progress economically. The risk is that you can always calculate better. Their problems are similar to the problems of the Baltic States; however Bulgaria and Romania are further away but with time (5-6 years) they can achieve good results. It is an economic question if it can come.

KK: The conception of "New Neighbourhood" is introduced for the relations between the EU and its eastern neighbours, particularly with Belarus. How do You see the special role of Lithuania, Poland and Latvia as the mediators between the Union and Belarus?

Prof. Dr. Lehmann: First of all, it would be good if your country would develop with constitution and democracy more to fulfil the standards of the EU. This will simplify the complex relations with your country.

If Belarus and Ukraine tend to have closer relations with Russia, we will still have good relations with your countries. It is urgently important for us. Germany was a border state during the cold war and the iron curtain crossed the heart of Germany. The family of mine was right in the middle. 3/4 of the overkill capacity was directly concentrated in Europe.

With Could War, World War I and World War II Germany has extreme intention for good neighbourhood to prevent any tension. And it is even more important than having your countries as a part of the EU. It can be good but create an additional feeling of tension.

Russia was angry when the Baltic States joined the EU and NATO as Russia feels isolated. Your countries need relations that allow us to work together, to trade together and avoid anything like a war.

We believe in self-determination of the citizens of the state about their future, so you have to decide. But with a fair and correct procedure and really objective information, otherwise it would not be self-determination. So it is necessary to provide fair democratic procedure.

The Baltic States are fringe or door states, partly they are transit states. They speculate on gaining economically. They have Russian companies operating in the Baltic States and it opens the direct way to the community market (as well as Ireland has many American companies). These companies provide well-paid jobs for the citizens and good taxes for the state.

But the Baltic States are intended to play this special role. They used to be the part of the USSR and historically have relations with Belarus. If they are smart enough, they will be able to take this role particularly as a transit or fringe states.

KK: The factor of Russia often occurs when discussing the relations between Belarus and the EU. Some Lithuanian MPs said about the beginning of the negotiation process of their country (as well as all the Baltic States) with the EU: "East to Poland Berlin sees only the walls of Cremlin". How could You comment it?

Prof. Dr. Lehmann: Yes, most people here do not have much information about your country. It is considered to be one block. It is important issue that we should more concentrate on the specialities of these countries. The Baltic States had a hard time to find their own identity. Maybe they are oversensetive about this self-finding process. These countries were surpressed during the Soviet times, so the national ideas might be overexegurated. The European Union and Germany have to work hard to recognize and to find them unique. But on the other hand the EU can bring them into normal situation. Letҳ take the example of Latvia. The Latvians are minority in Rīga. The language issue in the situation with Russians in Latvia is also very important. Some pressure from the EU made Latvia to be more patient in this problem. The minority languages in Europe are supported and in the long term it will work.

But it is true that we knew very little about the East. We had no idea of the difference. But this is a chance since the borders are open to travel. Especially Germany has to work hard with these people to see the differences. It can be historically explained. Also politically and economically it is a duty for Germany to take up this role. We can do more in this direction but it takes time for people. It is possible to find the information about these countries in the newspapers, but the media are private enterprices and the content depends on the interests of the customers (readers, etc.).

Letҳ take an example of the Bremen University of Applied Sciences (Hochschule Bremen). ? of our students have to study abroad (about 30 cources and 1000 students) at our partner universities. It is a part of our programme. But there is a trend: students look towards West (England, the USA, France, etc). We have to balance the situation and change this trend, but we cannot force our students. The vast majority are very reluctant when the east is offered, because they have lack of information as well as no idea what to expect there. And moreover there is the same way around. Letҳ take an example of Belgium. If the students have a choise between studies in France and in Germany, 80% will prefer France. It is rooted in their minds. This is a problem of the last 70 years, i.e. 2-3 generations. We have to balance it out because it is our historical task.

KK: There have had lack of interest to the Belarusian situation in the media of the EU member-states (except Poland, Lithuania and Latvia). Can the increase of interest to Belarus in European media have some influence on the situation in Belarus?

Prof. Dr. Lehmann: There is a progress, because if you are interested you can have the information, but the media are influenced by their clients. They cannot make policy themselves, but react to their clientsҠinterests.

I will give you an example of the Hochschule Bremen. The next summer semester will have a focus on a new accession states. During the semester there will be conferences, workshops, cultural events (poetry, music, movies) about these countries in order to inform the students and to bring these countries into the mind of the citizens of Bremen. We discussed this policy and we ought to do more for the interests of people. I have to say that we have more contacts and more information about South America or Eastern Asia, than Central Europe.

KK: The issue of the Turkish accession to the European Union has already been diskussing for about 40 years. One of the main points here is the factor of Islam. How do You see the prospects of Turkey as well as possible consequenses of its accession?

Prof. Dr. Lehmann: Religious point is not essential at essential. The EU should stay secular because the idea of Europe of Christianity is exploisive. The danger of such an approach gives too much to the fundamentalists, not only Islamic, but also Christian.

If Turkey proves that if follows the Copenhagen criteria and combine with Islam than it is suitable. The Kemal system established a secular Turkish state. If Turkey does not achieve this goal and combine it with the Islamic fundamentalism, it will not fulfil the accession criteria.

KK: The next issue has become really acute in some European countries, but in some of them this is not discussed. After Seprember, 11 it has become clear that Europe was the shelter for many Islamic terrorists and fundamentalists. Does Europe really face the threat of Islam?

Prof. Dr. Lehmann: There is no threat of Islam, but threat of terrorism. There is a big problem for our open society. Our main interest is to keep our society open and tolerant. If we destroy it, it will bring us more threat. We are endangered and our goal is to keep security. There have been terroristic activities here. Mohamed Atta, one of those who attacked WTC was a student in Hamburg. Or a recent murder in Amsterdam of a Dutch film director Theo van Gogh commited by a person from Marocco. It could happen and there is a problem. But we have to be really careful with our reaction, because there is a mistake to give up ideas of open, tolerant and internationally-minded society. It can turn to the situation we have in the Netherlands.

There are more than 12% of Muslims in Bremen, and only a small fraction can be seen as fundamentalistic. The vast majority is open and interesting to have good relations within the society. In the Hochschule Bremen we follow the policy of being internationalized, the Master of European Studies Programme has 90% of international students. There is a really good mix with open athmosphere and everybody can gain from this openess.

KK: The communal elections held in September 2004 in several federal lands reflected the increasing popularity of the right wing parties in German society. What reason can be put forward these results: lack of the new ideas in "traditional" parties or sometning else?

Prof. Dr. Lehmann: There are many reasons which can be mentioned. First of all, there is a certain per cent of voters who always support the right-wing parties. In the last decades this persent could be kept rather small in the West Germany. The problem of the Eastern Germany is a big amount of protest voters. They express their anger, discontent, disappointment by voting extreme. However the voters from this category are not nationalists, radicals or nazis by themselves.

The second reason is the influence of the communist system in the past. The issues of the past have never been discussed in this society and the people have never been correctly informed about the history in Germany. However this problem is a typical for all post-communist societies. The past has never been really discussed there. There is also a lack of a long-term democratic experience in the East Germany. You should be responsible with you vote.

It seems like right-wing parties are joining their forces in the future. In the past they were dispersed, havng made just their propaganda, and their role was insignificant. However jointly they are getting more damages.

There is also a social question: it is much easier to develop democracy when the economy progresses as well as to develop democratic spirits even with the people with no democratic experience like in the case of East Germany. But with no progress in economy the right-wing parties can promise everything in order to get the voters. So, there is a test for a democracy state: to stay open and tolerant even in the economically hard times. And Germany has to stand this test. Left and right extreme parties had no chance in the past and no attention to this issue has been paid before. Now the demagogic parties have more chances as well as nationalism and racism have more chances with the economically frustrated people and this is a common experience worldwide.

KK: It has been said a lot about the European Constitution. What kind of Europe does it form: Europe of states or the state Europe? Can it happen that all the decisions taken by the EU will be the joint will of Berlin and Paris and the role of the smaller countries in the decision-making process will be minimized?

Prof. Dr. Lehmann: Europe will not be a "United States of Europe". It will follow a new path and the EU development does not follow the existing pattern of existing theory. The European countries try to find a new solution.

"Big and small states" is a very sensible problem because of different interests to be balanced. Now we have 25 states in the EU and you cannot have one or two member states with a leading role. It is impossible in the Union. You need a sound critical majority of member states, which feel the European idea and therefore can encourage the development and harmonisation process in the Union; otherwise the EU will face serious problems.

11 November, 2004
See Belarusian translation here